I just caught Tim Turner passionately speaking about all of his victories, on some Rowan McDonald interview on youtube for an hour. He speaks of being a freeman and all, using secured party creditor whatever.  My question is this:  After becoming a state national, is participating in commerce like he is, another "drag you back in" mistake to be avoided.  Or is this stuff something else to be mastered?  He really liked going on about his courtroom antics, and all.  For the most part he seemed right on about somethings, but just when he started with the sovereignity thing I had a flash back to 1990 when sovereign citizenship was all the rage.

My gut feeling, that Turner is a plant. Good that you detected this.

We, as State Nationals, stay out of the courts. And, YES. The UCC drags you back into their system.

Turner is teaching "You can use the strawman to your benefit" BS breaks the maxim of law having to take the liabilities that go along with the benefits. The more he talks on a video I have recently watched the more movement falsehoods that show up. He is parroting every bit of nonsense I have noted in the movement the past 12 years or so. He is mixing it with some truth which makes it hard for everyone to discern. There is nothing original from this guy, and as a matter of fact he stole the big fish little fish principle I used in deprogramming. Lucky he was too cheap to get The Red Amendment or he would be stealing information from that too I would suspect. Everything else he spouts is unoriginal.

In short, those who let themselves be deceived will be deceived.

• Also see this information : http://www.notmygovernment.us/forum/NMG.pl?num=1265774885

Update>>>

Here is a poor, lost soul, Donna Kozak : http://www.blogger.com/profile/12733900468547155490

She actually put this Tim "Turn the Facts" Turner Blogspot up : http://turnerclass.blogspot.com

Note all the people that are getting (going to be) taken for 400 dollars a pop for the worthless seminars.

She is actually supporting this Turner... He has incorporated every piece of patriot garbage under the sun into his "program". And of course, note that she is supporting Jivin' Clive too.

It is totally unbelievable how ignorant people are.

More fun with Tim Turner at Quatloos : http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5281

LB Bork wrote on Mar 11th, 2010 at 6:51pm:


This one seems to get it:

"Shorthand refutations:

The "all caps" name: So what. Nothing in any case or in the UCC or any other statute creates a "straw man" or nominee or fictitious person if the human being's name is printed in all capital letters. The refutation is show me the law, the case, etc., where this worked.

The UCC liens: These folks frequently file UCC-1's creating a secured creditor relationship between the human (Large and lower case spelling) and the strawman (all caps). First, a naked UCC-1 creates nothing; there must be another document called a security agreement; then value must be advance and the debtor must receive possession of the collateral before a UCC-1 perfects a lien. Since the all caps and upper and lower case persons are the same (see above), then even if all of the steps are talken, the doctrine of merger applies and the lien is subsumed into ownership and no longer exists. The doctrine of merger, which says you can't take a lien on stuff you own, applies in all states and the District of Columbia.

UCC signtures: All rights reserved, etc. These can be used, but if there are no rights nothing is reserved. Also, a signature ordinarily does not release rights unless it is a signature on a release document.

UCC negotiable instrument law: The gurus always get this wrong. Art. 3 is fairly complicated but in concept is simple: it creates a statute to control the use of promises to pay, which are called "notes," but only applies to those promises that meet the definition of "negotiable instrument." A negotiable instrument is, among other things, a written and unconditional promise to pay a sum certain (e.g., princ. plus interest) either on demand or on a date certain, in currency or specie as set out in the note.

Redemption often focuses on some alleged Treasury Account that all Americans own; there is no such thing.

Redemption often focues on some sort of argument about whether Federal Reserve Notes are money. They are.

Redemption theory makes no sense -- it is illogical.

Redemption theory sometimes focuses upon the bankruptcy of the US. The US is not in a bankruptcy proceeding, since there is nothing in title 11 that would let the US file absent, at the very least, enabling legislation from Congress. Bankruptcy is governed solely by federal law (see the US Const.). Therefore, without enabling legislation, title 11, chapter 9 will not admit the US or one of its wholly owned corporate entitites like the USPS.

I could go on and on, but I find redemption and the UCC as promulgated on the net too hard to understand and too stupid to follow."

Here is Tim "Turn the Facts" Turner that many are impressed with.
Everything out of his mouth has been taken from every faction of the movement (most of it wrong).
See in particular the plagiarized reference from PAC Deprogramming.



If someone would like to transcribe his statements, I would be glad to debunk them/tell you where they came from.

    Well, i got through half of this video and it seems to me like these guys are lost in the legal mumbo jumbo, which, some may or may not be true. Like L.B. says, the U. S. is a corporation, so what! All governments are corporations, always have been. So how about a thought experiment. Supose Tim and the gang were able to "end" all the contacts and licenture of which he speaks. This would include his parents Marriage lic., birth cert., S.S.N., etc..  Is Tim "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"? I would say yes, only because he would inevitably admit to U. S. citizenship somewhere along the way. Just gotta get those bennies!

Now Larry Hagman is in with Tim Turner : http://www.wakingupinamerica.com

How Maritime Law Benefits You - Tim Turner & Larry Hagman - Wednesday March 10th, 2010

"How Maritime Law Benefits You" ? These people are nuts! 

LB Bork wrote on Mar 14th, 2010 at 10:44am:


Hey, that's what PAC needs, a celebrity endorsement!

Somebody call Clint Eastwood! He can shoot J.R.!  

JWJones wrote on Mar 14th, 2010 at 11:19am:

This gets worse all the time. I cannot believe how gullible people are. Turner is one smooth talking conman.

This appears to have just posted on April 21.
Some of this starting at about 2:00 sounds like he got it straight out of The Red Amendment.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DefeatTyranny#p/u/4/DvZqHYY3oT8

They cover the 14th Amendment, Expatriation Amendment, etc.

He's letting out some truth...it's just let out in a continuous stream....kind of like silly string being sprayed around the room....it grabs your attention but you cant follow where it's headed exactly... next thing you know it's in your hair, on the dog, between your teeth....you get the idea.

I do want the Republic restored. They say they want to do it peacefully. I want to like that idea.  I want to believe that perhaps they have filtered out the garbage and they are finally coming close to what LB figured out long ago. I just can't help thinking that there are a series of unseen twists here.
What's around the bend?

I just wish that the brightest minds along with those with the best intentions could all make up their minds in favor of the best solution. We in America have been fooled long enough and I'd like to sing "We won't get fooled again" with some conviction!
Bottom line, I'm sticking with TRA approach because I seem to be able to follow it. If I am going to be covered in silly string at least I know that I will be the one with my finger on the nozzle and controlling both the timing and pressure.

Hey, Credo...

I listened to Turner... Just a bunch of BS he is spouting. It is really hard to believe anyone would buy into his nonsense. What he is saying will never happen. I maintain that this is just a sting operation of the people in control.

Too bad people are falling for this... They are sidetracking many years of work.

The only way things will be fixed if people repent.

Yeah, LB , I do believe you are spot on. They seem to say just enough to grab your attention and make you want to hear what they have to say. It's the classic magician's technique. Look at my hand wiggling over here while you listen to my captivating and dramatic vocal presentation while my other hand manipulates the next move to dazzle and amaze you! You want more? I got thousands of tricks taking up thousands of hours of your time. Enjoy folks! Thas right, Y'all just sit on back an' enjoy the freedom show! Y'all remember me, Double T, I'll work for freedom so you don't have to!

I'll say one thing. He sure does have the gift of gab! This is what happens when you listen to him ----> 

ALERT - Tim Turner declares he's President of United States - Restore America Plan (RAP) The TRAP

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!....
                               The "De Jure Grand Jury" members total up to 666 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_84eZV-NdPY

LISTEN TO THIS LIAR, TIM TURNER, WHO USES GOD TO ENTRAP....
                            The lies never stop with this guy and the idiots keep listening 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKmM8UUuX9I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA13qkS3iTA

Well, thankyouwhiteknights it has been two months... What have the Turner statements—rather, more lies—provided?

This sounds like agent provocateurs at work. If they succeed in getting a good number of sheeple to follow them, they could create chaos, and thereby give the insurgents the excuse they need to pull out the iron fist of tyranny (vs. the soft tyranny we are faced with currently).

This is why I encourage, those of us who have corrected their status, to engage the public at large. First, so people can see that PAC and State Nationals have no association with the likes of Tim Turner and schemes like the "RAP". Secondly, to offer a viable alternative to wild and dangerous confrontations with the de facto government(s).

Everyone involved with the so-called patriot movenment has a desire to "restore America", even though they have only a idea of what America actually is; they have a desire to beat back the facist/communist powers that be, yet they give them legitimacy and hegemony by 1) continuing to particapate in a system meant to be broken, and 2) adding to the tension and unfounded fear of domestic terrorism by giving people like Tim Turner 5 minutes of the day.

We have two stones for multiple birds. PAC, the educational wing of the coalition (with its own text book) and the State Nationals,  a real restoration plan based on reclaiming our several, natural, nationalities. Brilliant! The "RAP" guys don't have that, they have fake, pretend de jure grand juries, with self-important, wanna be presidents.

You, SN's, must be seen living your daily lives without the United States. Answer people's basic questions (how do you drive, bank, work, and raise children? Be honest.). This, I believe is how we can appeal to the so-called patriots and then to the so-called average American.

OK, I know; I'm ranting again. 

It's just that, for a site to have over 400 members, it's pretty quite.
How do we expect to accomplish our goals with a community that lacks communication?